Photo: Anna Guest-Jelley. Art Direction: The Magazine of Yoga.

Discover What Works For You

I’m not saying we should criticize people who come to yoga to lose weight – I’m saying as teachers we should find ways to meet people where they are.

BY MAGAZINE EDITOR SUSAN MAIER-MOUL

Conversation: Anna Guest-Jelley, Part One

Website Curvy Yoga

Anna on Channel 5 Nashville Talk of the Town

Weightless Interview with Margarita Tartakovsky

From Curvy Yoga Valentine’s Day post

Curve: the loveliest distance between two points.
~Mae West

Susan Maier-Moul If you were to name the single most effective change in approach curvy yogis can make to experience an enriching yoga practice, what would it be?

Anna Guest-Jelley I spent about ten years practicing yoga uncomfortably. I felt like my fat was a secret that no one would acknowledge—both because I was usually the biggest person in the room by far and because teachers very rarely offered me information about how to modify poses to fit my body.

Discomfort as a function of size and silence

Susan So you’re saying the silence that greeted you was very much a function of your size relative to other people who showed up to practice and as the result of that you felt you had to accept discomfort as a function of size and silence.

It feels so isolated imagining that, when I reflect on the various feelings of panic I had for years in my own practice.

Anna I know – it is very isolating. I just always felt like I stuck out like a sore thumb, and I often still feel that way. I internalized my often unpleasant and unsafe practice as the consequence of the size of my body. I figured that I’d truly enjoy the practice once I lost weight and got svelte like my classmates.

I’ve talked with several teacher friends recently who are very interested in learning to accommodate their curvy students, but they confess that those students are few and far between. I can’t say that this surprises me in the least.

I don’t think this at all means that curvy students don’t want to practice. I know from hearing from many of them that it probably means they’re just practicing at home, trying to make their way through the best they can.

Don’t get me wrong; I love home practice. But I think we all deserve the right to practice with a knowledgeable teacher—even if just occasionally.

Any size person can be anxious about weight

Susan The whole situation was a set up in the sense that you were holding yourself accountable for the training that hasn’t been available to the teacher and his or her own internalized social anxiety about body and weight.

Anna Yes, exactly! This is something that happens to fat people all the time. Eventually, I realized how messed up that was (and what a miracle it is that I never gave up completely, although I often didn’t practice for many months at a time).

The problem wasn’t my body! The problem was I (and my teachers) didn’t have adequate information for my body.

Once I discovered that, I was able to experiment in my home practice and seek out other resources. Now if I go to a class and a teacher instructs me inappropriately, I’ll either tell him/her what does work for me or I’ll do what I know works for me anyway. If the teacher persists, I won’t go back.

I refuse to waste any more time (or money!) feeling scrunched, torqued, suffocated, or shamed in yoga class.

Reclaiming OK ness

Susan How can other people reclaim their practice from the burden of social awkwardness, inadequate training and body image angst?

Anna I encourage fat practitioners to take back their autonomy over their practice. I think that all of us are socialized to trust the authority of whoever is at the front of the room, but I know that many fat people feel this doubly so in any kind of movement-related class.

I think this is totally understandable as the majority of the messages we receive are that we don’t know anything about our bodies because, if we did, we wouldn’t be fat.

Well, I’m here to clue people in: we know we’re fat.

It’s not a surprise we need unveiled to us. In many cases, we’re the first ones in line to criticize ourselves and our bodies. What’s revolutionary isn’t offering advice on weight loss; we’ve all heard that a million+ times.

What’s revolutionary is offering the time, space and gentle care for us to focus on feeling good, on connecting with our bodies. This is especially true with yoga; we don’t need yoga for weight loss!

The social meaning of size

Susan You need something different, something that’s actually the premise of mindfulness. Just because someone is under size 8 doesn’t mean yoga is “working” better for that person. Half the problem for really caring teachers is they know this is a fishy situation, but are trapped. How do you let go of the tiger without getting eaten?

Anna I completely agree with that. I believe there are many wonderful teachers out there who truly want to create an accepting place for their students. I know and have learned from some truly brilliant and caring people.

I also recognize that many people come to yoga in hopes of losing weight. I don’t think we should criticize people for having that goal; I very much understand where that’s coming from. In addition, I think we should find ways as teachers to meet people where they are.

If weight loss gets them in the door, then I believe we can also focus on making sure the room they walk into is size-accepting and gives them some room to loosen around the imperative to lose weight and instead focus on doing what supports their body in health, which in many cases does not include weight loss.

My hope is that through Curvy Yoga, and the other great resources that are out there, people will begin to see that they can discover what works for them and encourage their teachers to do the same.

Yoga teachers need to know how to make curvy modifications. However, I predict that this will continue to become even more of an issue in the future as fat people (who are 2/3 of Americans, by the way) continue to seek out positive movement experiences.

The evolution of leadership

Susan Your leadership really sparkles! You have many enthusiastic fans. How is this process unfolding for you, personally?

Anna Doubt and fear are big factors for me in a variety of ways. When I first started writing (and still today, although to a lesser degree), I was very hesitant to be open about the depth of my experience around negative body image and disordered eating.

My instinct was to gloss over details because (a) those are painful stories for me to recount and (b) I wanted to be in a position to be less hurt if people criticized them.

I quickly realized, though, that I want my work to resonate. I wanted to write what I’d always wanted to read, and I knew I couldn’t do that by staying at the surface and not taking risks. I also had to work to write through my experience, not just about my experience.

I see this as a subtle but important distinction.

I found that when I wrote about my experience, it elicited responses that were akin to pity (which isn’t what I hoped for at all!). But when I write through my experience, it gives people the opportunity to see themselves reflected in it.

Intuition and integrity

Susan What are your questions and/or how do you deal with moments of doubt, fear or low energy?

Anna One thing I’ve had to learn, both about writing on a regular basis and about developing a business, is to weigh advice against my own intentions.

When I really started blogging, for instance, I read dozens (at a minimum!) of articles about the best approaches to blogging. And while I did learn quite a bit, I also quickly discovered that not all the “best practices” fit for me and what I’m trying to do.

The same thing applies to the business angle of Curvy Yoga; I knew intuitively how I wanted to proceed. I wanted to craft a way for as many people as possible to learn about yoga for curvy bodies, and I didn’t want people to go broke doing it.

I currently teach free Curvy Yoga classes, and my plan is to charge very little when I do begin charging. I’m inspired by people who have similar approaches to their teaching, including Barbara Denowh here on The Magazine.

Susan But you’re not focused on a moral purity model – neither one of us believes teachers should work for nothing because yoga is about love, right?

When you talk about free and low cost classes, your ideas are integrated with your career in public health and your informed understanding of economies.

Anna Definitely. I’m glad you’re bringing up public health and yoga’s leadership explicitly.

Susan I have a strong feeling for a wider more substantial thought leadership and activist role for the entire community of yoga in public life. Yoga practitioners and teachers must address and overcome the limitations of being seen as a resource which others direct.

Yoga as a community of thought-leadership

Anna I’ve seen a similar conversation in the activist community.

There are many people who think that work should be done for free, or for very low wages, because it’s for the “good of the movement.” I couldn’t disagree with that more—in activist or yoga circles. I believe that we need to support the work we want to see in this world, and financial support is a very big part of that.

Although I’ve gotten some pushback from people when talking with them about how I want my philosophical and financial practices to be aligned, I really believe that this is an evolving model that can work.

My process has been greatly informed by the community acupuncture model, which succeeds precisely because it makes acupuncture available to people who would never seek out or be able to afford it otherwise.

I’d eventually like to transition to working with Curvy Yoga full-time, so I’m certainly realistic about the need to make a living wage, but I’m most interested in finding sustainable ways to do that.

Susan This is another way you embody leadership. I really admire you for trying out new business and service models.

The creative spirit of a whole community of practice is being lifted these days by brilliant rising teachers who are becoming better known, and by thousands of extraordinary community teachers whose contributions make yoga strong and vital.

Anna I very much agree.

One model I’ve seen is with organizing for universal healthcare. One of the tools that community uses is healthcare forums, where people come to a mic and share their experiences with health insurance companies. I went to one of these once and it was a life-changing experience. I realize how dramatic that sounds, but it’s true.

People just told one heart-wrenching story after another about having to make these horrific life and death decisions—like should I get my dad the treatment he needs or should I lose my house. I don’t think I knew the meaning of the phrase righteous indignation until that day.

That movement doesn’t need a rockstar; it just needs these people sharing their stories, over and over. Their collective power is infinitely stronger than any one person could be, no matter how charismatic of a speaker.

Trying new ways of doing things: frameworks for yoga

Susan Part of the life changing effect was you were galvanized to take action – you see an active debate emerging about access and empowerment?

Anna Yes, and I think the same is true in yoga; this is what I’m really starting to see rise up with Curvy Yoga. Curvy yogis and their allies are pouring out of the woodwork in ways and numbers I never expected. I truly believe that all of us sharing our experiences and connecting with each other is how we can evolve a practice that works for more of us.

I know there’s much discussion in the yoga community about the merits of various business models (or even the idea that there are such things as business models). What makes the most sense to me is being transparent about my goals and process.

I’m not trying to hide the fact that I want the message of Curvy Yoga to be available to more people and that it takes paying and making money for that to happen.

Susan Amen. Your work demonstrates a grass roots response to the need for viable businesses and the ability to earn a living when you’ve given your resources – cash, time and energy into building the yoga practice community. Feeling motivated to teach should not require you to be an acolyte of industry vetted teachers.

Anna Haha—yes! At one point I actually thought of opening a yoga studio called “Grassroots Yoga.”

How people care to interpret this is up to them; similarly to the fact that not everyone will love the idea that yoga can be for fat people, I know that some people won’t love my business approach. All I can do, though, is be honest about my decisions.

A long and curvy road

Susan These are all profound challenges and adventures! Is your perspective on yourself changing?

Anna It’s actually interestingly scary in many ways. I find striking a balance with ambition difficult. I’m still learning to hold space for my ambition and strength.

Another thing that has been interesting for me is that I’ve really seen how much more work I still have to do around my own struggles of acceptance as a fat woman.

I’m at a much better place now than I was even a year or two ago, but I see that I have more layers to dig through.

In some ways that’s hard to admit, but I want people to know that I’m on a journey, too. I never want people to look at the work I do and think I have it all together or that I lovingly accept myself every day without difficulty. That is absolutely not true.

What absolutely is true is that I’m committed to continuing to embrace myself as much as I can and finding ways to process when I can’t. That’s a very big step for me, and it’s something I really developed the skills for through yoga.

Susan What is the most important factor in living positive when people insist on seeing negative?

Anna I recently had a very strange experience where one of my former teachers wrote a blistering critique of Curvy Yoga and the concept of Health at Every Size. I was physically ill when I found out about this initially, and then once I figured out who had written it, it was an even more bizarre experience.

A part of me desperately wanted to write an equally scathing critique back, using every belittling tool I had available. But after a few days of breathing through this, journaling, and doing some slow yoga practice, I was able to remind myself that’s not how I want to show up in the world.

I am very well aware that many people won’t agree with Curvy Yoga. I don’t have any stats on this or anything, but I think just through a simple and quick look at media messages and what we hear from our friends, family, colleagues, etc. that there are many more fat-haters than fat-accepters out there.

A practice of generating space

Susan Well I think there are a lot of “fat-pretenders” in the sense that there is a desire to be congratulated for being “open-minded” i.e. for political correctness instead of recognition – waking up.

Anna I think much of this is because people have been taught to find their own bodies unacceptable, but regardless of where you want to pin the source, I’ve found it to be true.

One thing that helps me when I’m struggling either internally or because of some negative feedback is that I took the time (and continue to) to be really clear about the experience I want people to have with both me and Curvy Yoga. I know that it’s not for everyone and that people will disagree, but I try to create as much space as possible for a diversity of experiences.

Susan Let’s give a shout out for spaciousness! So often we get up in our diamond-mind focus – which is really supposed to be toward our own stuff. Generating space is a really gorgeous practice.

Anna Like pretty much everything else in my life, staying positive is a process and a practice. My immediate instinct is not to be positive–at all. In fact, the exact opposite is probably true. Just ask my mom; she always complains about how much I catastrophize situations.

What I’ve learned over time, though, is that even though I may see worst-case scenarios, that doesn’t mean I have to get sucked into them.  

© 2011, The Magazine of Yoga, LLC.